Building the organisation of the future

Talent has increasingly become a competitive advantage amongst fast-growing companies and on today's episode, we have Maya John & Anuradha Bharat, HR leaders respectively at Dailyhunt (VerSe Innovation) & Razorpay, in conversation with Rupali Sharma, to share learnings from their journey & give us their perspective on building the org of the future. Tune in.

Rupali:

Hello, everyone. Welcome to yet another episode of Matrix Moments. My name is Rupali Sharma and I'm part of the human capital team of Matrix Partners India. All our episodes are special, today it is even more so because this is the first of many, today we’re going to record the first all women podcast. At the risk of sounding a feminist I'm totally excited and I couldn’t have asked for better partners to be doing this than two of my wonderful peers from the industry Maya John from VerSe and Anuradha Bharat from Razorpay.

Especially the fact that they represent two of our fastest growing portfolio companies make this even more wonderful. So far in all our episodes what we have seen is some amazing stories of business being built. However in most of the cases we’ve seen the stories from the point of view of a founder, an entrepreneur or a business leader. However, when you scale up a business grounds up there are multiple people playing a part. And when talent becomes the only competitive advantage between companies in the long run I thought why not see this perspective from somebody who’s taken care of that charter.

So I have Maya and Anu here, they will tell us their story of being part of these two amazing companies from the last five years and seven years, amazing. Yeah, I will request Maya and Anu to please introduce yourself in your own words for our viewers’ reference. Over to you, ladies.

Maya:

Thanks, Rupali. Hi, everyone. My name is Maya and I head the people function at Verse. As Rupali said it’s been five years, I can't believe it, you know, time has flown. But before this I came in from a very, very different planet or universe I would say. I was at GE, I grew up there as an HR person, I absolutely loved working there, I was there for about 12 years and before that at Sasken.

So I'm an engineer by education but didn’t pursue that, got into an HR MBA at XLRI and have always been in the HR stream. That's my day job, my evening role is a mum to many people at home, two kids, 10 and 14, husband, mum in law, a dog, so lot of stakeholders at home as well.

Rupali:

I can resonate.

Maya:

But all in all very interesting days and nights so looking forward to the discussion.

Rupali:

All yours.

Anuradha:

Thank you so much, Rupali, Matrix. This is incredible. And, Maya, so happy to share this with you.

Maya:

Yes.

Anuradha:

You’ve been such an inspiration, I think we’ve met very few times but just the fact that I'm able to share this with you today is very exciting.

Maya:

Thank you. And not to miss the accidental twinning. Over to you.

Anuradha:

Well, grew up in Mysore, come from a typical conservative middle class family. Mum being the backbone of everything that I am today and my sister Vijayalakshmi, I think both of them are reasons why I'm what I am today and who I am as a person. Always had this dream of wanting to be somebody who would bring in a positive influence in people’s lives and that's how psychology happened to me.

Did not know what else to do, you know, I was a headless chicken, I didn’t know what I wanted to study, where I wanted to go and what my future looked like but I did know that there was this wonderful connect that I could build with people. And this innate ability to put them at ease and get people to trust me. I wanted to do something in that space and so no MBA, no HR jargons, not your typical HR person at all. Struggled my way through my career wanting to find that space where I could do the best of what I could to make people’s lives better.

And I’ve been fortunate to work with fantastic people, they’ve given me a lot of opportunities, they allowed me to be. But I think to me the highlight of everything started with Razorpay of course. You know, that was 7 years ago, hesitating to meet because I had another opportunity at the time but when I met the people I just fell in love with the vision, with what they wanted to do not from a business perspective but about what they wanted to do from an organization standpoint, from a company standpoint. From what was the kind of environment that they wanted to create.

So I joined Razorpay after working for 12 years with fantastic organizations like VMware, with Symphony and Pinnacle India. And after that is when Razorpay happened, and it’s been 7 glorious journey. I will not trade this for anything in my life.

Rupali:

Wonderful. Thank you, I'm so looking forward to learning more about these journeys from both of you. However I'm going to double click on something that you said. Both of you came from legacy ecosystem. While I understand Anu did mention that not your typical HR, not MBA and right we all have different kind of backgrounds but I think what is common between both of you is you were initially working with legacy ecosystem, scaled and startup 5-7 years back wasn't as fancy as it is today.

So what was the trigger, what was the motivation at that point in time to move to an early stage ecosystem and do what you’re doing today?

Maya:

After many years of introspecting on the reason I think I was saying that I think the only rational explanation I can come up with is probably early midlife crisis. But on a serious note, for me it was more about challenging myself. You know, I had been in a certain type of ecosystem for many years. There’s a certain comfort there, there’s a certain buffer there, there’s a certain air cover there, there’s certain you know, you have great managers, you have wonderful leaders, you have a brand that’s larger than any single person in the organization.

So all of this I thought I wanted to try myself out in a space that had mostly almost none of this and see whether I could along with the larger team make a change. So it was more a personal keeda, it was – you know, I could comfortably continue where I was. Wonderful colleagues, managers, but it was just that. So deliberately chose something that was what I thought at that time was the absolute other end of the spectrum. You know, a small very promising company, wonderful founder, a team that had a lot of potential that could do much, much more in the coming years.

And more than anything I think it was this thing of can I do something more directly for my country, you know, with all the skills I’ve gained in other roles. So that was it, it sounded very rational in my mind. Of course the first year was anything but that but looking back wouldn’t trade it for the world. So, yes, you could say that that is some of the reasons of putting it up there.

Rupali:

What was your keeda?

Anuradha:

I'm beginning to get to know Maya, so many common threads to this. VMware was where I was just before I joined Razorpay. For me it was the fact that there is something that you could do here in India, it was the joy and the thrill and the adrenaline of building something from scratch. You could dabble with so many things, there’s so many new things that you can do, you can experiment. There’s instant validation, there’s space, there’s so much decision making power in your respective space and it can happen just like that.

And why is that important is because I think power is very important if you want to bring about a change. And that is what startups will give you, startups will give you this ability to experiment with new things, change course any time that you wanted. There is so much impact that you can create in people’s lives. And when we talk about lives, right, it’s not just about the lives of people that you’re going to work with. The environment that you're able to create internally amongst your people will allow you to create an impact even amongst their families. Create an impact amongst their friends, you know, in the ecosystem.

And you can bring in so much inspiration of what you want to do without having to go back to multiple countries and bring everyone together and the decision making that could happen all of that. So for me it was that joy of building and the joy of creating that environment where people want to come and do the best that they can. People want to come here and be their best self and not have to worry about a thing in the world about whose perceiving what about you, am I being judged here. Is this ecosystem conducive of who I want to be, will they be supportive of that.

For me it was all about that. But somewhere it was also like Maya said about how do I do something for my own country, how do I build something where we’re creating this here in India because you have so many companies that you look up to. Like I said I’ve worked for fantastic organizations but all of them are things that you borrow from someone else. You can still take inspiration, you can still borrow these things. But then is there something that can stop the talent train from India and bring people back here because you are starting something of a revolution in some sense by creating these environments within India. So to me that was I think the biggest motivation.

Rupali:

And what I take from both of your journey, right, there was a lot of self-internalization, there is a lot of need to be able to create impact especially for India or within India. And there was this immense need to be able to build an ecosystem where business and people thrive together, greate amazing. However I think I will not be doing justice to the amazing number of years you’ve spent in both these companies. If we don’t spend more time on those experiences because I think as a partner to a lot of our early stage portfolio companies what I have also seen is the need of business changes. In early stage it’s very different than in a growth stage and then scale.

And I think the only constant is people, right, and I think I would love to understand more from you because you guys have seen that entire full stack journey, very early stage, very hustle first, very operational heavy ecosystem to lot of strategic as you were growing, hyper growth stage, both unicorns now. So love to understand how experience has evolved, right, maybe deep dive more on some of the problems that has evolved from then to now. How was it and I'm sure you guys had to prioritize, you know, balancing business needs with people’s needs. Because many a time there is a dichotomy at play.

Then also trying to figure out that while you're building but you're also building for scale, right, so would love to understand how that entire journey has evolved from then to now?

Maya:

So I can I think all of us can write multi volume thrillers of the last couple of years but, yes, you're right. I think every stage requires something very, very different while some things should remain the same a lot of things have to change. So if I reflect on the early years, you know, I think it was a lot of going slow to then go superfast. So, what I mean by that is, you know, you look at who and what you have and you try and do your best with that.

So for a startup the biggest arsenal that you have are your founders or your founder at that stage. So who they are, what they bring, the core team that they’ve started to build around them you try and amplify that. You posture that to more talents who you're trying to bring into the company because you don’t have any backstory, right, you don’t have anything to say oh, we did this, we did that. So you're more on hey, this is who we have.

Rupali:

You sell the founder.

Maya:

You sell the founder. Sorry, but yes, we sell the founder. And all of that, all the passion and all the focus and all that ambition that they bring to the table. So there’s no shortcuts, you know, it’s long days, it is intense discussions, it is talking to amazing talent in the market and sometimes saying hey, I wish I could get them in but maybe you can't, maybe you can. So it’s a lot of slow and steady, step by step building blocks. It can get, there are good days and bad but I think couple of tips that we’ve kind of seen working is taking people along.

So you may have nothing and you may have everything but at the end of the day if your team doesn’t get it, right, if they don’t understand the journey, if they don’t understand the mission of the company whoever they are, you know, it’s not a long lasting journey. And that’s something that we’ve always been particular about, we’re not kind of a fly by night, we want to make a mark. And so we want people who are in the company to kind of be part of that journey.

So that is one, the second is, yes, in the initial stages it’s like a chicken and egg, unless you have product and market you can't hire the right talent. Unless you have talent you can't get out great products into the market. So there’s no ideal solution, I think it’s just every day kind of saying okay, what do I have, what are my strengths, who do I have and what can we do the best with. As I was saying it does take time, it does take a little patience but it builds on itself.

The second, I just wanted to add one more flavor that every phase of the journey also takes a different mindset. Some of the things that we have tried, and we continue to try is being real, being humble, you know, always – taking nothing for granted. Like today maybe unicorn tomorrow maybe we’re nothing.

Rupali:

Hope not.

Maya:

Hope not, right, and but in today’s day and age anything can happen. So I think being real and authentic and kind of playing to our strengths has been our go to posturing whether we were just 100 employees or whether we’re 2500 as we are today. So I think we try and hold on to that very, very dearly. I can say it gets more and more difficult because you're trying to take more and more people along with you so each of them need to understand that, so it takes more effort, it takes more communication, more chit chats, more chai coffee discussions more all hands, all of that.

But I think the mindset piece and I think that can be a derailer sometimes, you know, sometimes you get ahead of yourself or you think you’ve made it as a company and nothing can come in the way. So we try and stay humble looking at the market especially the market that's going to roll up in the next two years. We look at our people, we look at our leaders, my peers and all of that. So I think definitely distinct flavors in every phase. Learning from mistakes, failing fast and just not repeating them and I think moving forward has been some of the recipes.

Rupali:

Wonderful. I love the mindset piece, it’s a very simple statement but very – that’s what it takes – the right mindset.

Rupali:

Lot about what was nitty gritties and tips.

Anuradha:

Initial years were very tough, you know, every six months I would – the first six months I would question myself, I mean, what am I doing here really. Because no two days are typical, right, you come thinking that these are the things that you want to do and this is where you want to go today, this is what you want to do, everything changes.

When you enter everything changes and your plate is forever overflowing, you're never in a comfortable situation. So somewhere irrespective of how much you do and what you're able to accomplish and what you're able to get done it always seems like you're behind the cut, always. When you're in a dynamic setup, when you're in a fast paced environment when you're in that growth phase there is no brand. Like Maya said, you know, they’re your arsenal, your founders are the ones who you really sell, your founders’ vision.

So you have to be tied to the hip with them about what their vision is, about where we want to go but at the same time I think you are also the only person who can speak both for the business and for the people. And some of that I think is the beauty of how well you get connected in a startup ecosystem to every person in your team. You know what’s happening with everyone, you know where they are professionally, personally, in their emotional state of mind. You just know everything.

And it’s a lot of hustle, hustle, hustle because there’s so much that you need to do like I said, it’s never about your plate being full it’s always overflowing, it’s almost like a waterfall all the time. And sometimes I would get asked these questions, what does an HR have to do. I have always seen HRs who do 9-5 kind of a thing but why are you here always.

You know, it is about how deeply you build, connect with your people. It is how much you're able to listen to your people. See, all of them if you look at it in startups they’re mostly young achievers, the ones who join initial startups they’re all very young, they’re technically super strong, they’re amazing at what they do, you know, you have the best of hackers, you have the best of sales folks because, you know, they’re ambitious. For them it is about how do I get this done and it’s all about the hustle.

And it is all about execution. And when you're in that state the thing that you do not have is experience of handling when you fail at something and you're in that place and that turns everything upside down for you. So your ability as an HR or as a people’s person to listen to what people have to say and to give them that stability in the environment and to continuously keep them motivated and to reaffirm the vision and what you're here for.

The purpose of why you're doing what you're doing and how do you fit into this equation. I think that is what it is all about in the initial years.

But as you scale I think in your growth phase like Maya said it is about mindset shifts each time. It is about how you're able to be agile, your ability to handle the changes that are happening in the ecosystem, the kind of people, because now you have to bring in a balance. You can no longer keep upscaling people internally, you have to bring in talent from outside. But how do you still bring that and complement these skills to make sure that as an organization you're still winning, you're still going that extra mile, how do you bring in that. And how do you scale and how do you scale the connect. That is I think the biggest challenge that everyone grapples with as we scale, So it’s not as easy as you scale. I think bringing that balance is very important.

Rupali:

And, Anu, because you said something and it’s a great segue to my next question. Because you said you're not upgrading yourself enough and you need to get different people and I think rightly said. We’ve also seen different competencies are needed at different stages and because we’re always hustling. Early stage and you said it’s always overflowing and we’re so busy with solving operational problems many a time and I’ve seen as a bystander to the process now in my previous role is that the business priorities and the business needs tends to outgrow people’s competence. They grow way faster than people upgrade themselves to solve this problem.

However both of you have seen the thick of things. You’ve seen that which definitely brings me to the next question, right. With solving all of these business scaling in a hyper growth stage how have you guys kept yourself upgraded, upscaled, to ensure that you are mentally skillfully ready to handle what the business would want you to solve next.

Anuradha:

I take inspiration from people. For me I think it’s the energy that people bring to you and it’s your ability to have multiple conversations with people and continuously learn. You no longer, I mean if you're working 14-15 hours a day and it’s not a joke. You know, thankfully I don’t have children that I need to take care of. That's a different ball the juggle, right. And it’s so hard sometimes, it’s very hard because you don’t have time to read, everything has to be in shorts, it has to be looked at differently not just from your perspective but how you're absorbing what someone else could be saying. You know, you can't just directly take something that you’ve heard somewhere and use it.

You’ve to read multiple articles, you have to read multiple things. But I think one way to solve that problem has always been to interact more with people internally and externally.

Rupali:

So reading books, revalidating it with internal and external.

Anuradha:

Yeah, and just have lots of conversations with people because that's the only way that you're able to keep up with what is happening in the industry. And I think people trigger a lot of thoughts in us which can be inspiring. It will lead to a lot of creativity, it leads to you wanting to think differently because you're learning from somebody else’s experiences of that and as we’re speaking I'm learning so many things from Maya herself, from you Rupali about all the conversations that we’ve had previously when we were speaking about what were we doing during situations that we were not ready to handle, we didn’t know.

So it was all of that and I think you really are able to bring in a sense of upskilling to yourself by the interactions that you have with people.

Rupali:

Maya, what’s your hack?

Maya:

No, I think a hack has been – again everything goes down to our teams. One is that we realized over the years that people have more skills than the one they’re doing today. So there’s a role that they’re in, maybe they’re using two of their ten skills but there’s actually another eight more than that person can bring to the table. So one was just unpeeling the, hey, what more do you do, what more are you good at, what more would you love to do.

That led us to for example if we take Josh the origins of Josh was actually seeded many years before that by a small team that said we want to try this experiment, which was very, very different from their core role. So I think – I'm not saying that we’re the gold standard there yet but we try and leverage ideas and innovation from within the team. So that is one.

Second is again, you know, it’s very humbling to think that okay, maybe we’re the first ones trying to figure out something but somewhere in the world somebody has already figured it out or on their way to figuring it out.

Rupali:

Or at least some version of it.

Maya:

So just looking left, right, up and down sometimes you find leads, you find people who are doing some very interesting work. And thanks to Covid maybe one of the pluses is that the world has shrunk very dramatically. So you find talent, you find skills literally everywhere. You just need to know to look and you need to have the patience to do that. So we’ve mixed it up, we’ve said okay, from our own team what more is there and people would love to do larger roles, different roles so we’ve had that. We’ve had a whole bunch of rehires that's people or employees who’ve chosen to come back into the company to do different roles. So they bring a certain legacy, they bring a certain wisdom and then they get to redo that in different ways, so that's one.

And third is just the ecosystem, not just the HR ecosystem, just the ecosystem in general, there’s always something interesting happening out there. So these are some ways that we’ve kind of tried to leverage the best of what we have plus kind of dip into the ecosystem.

and as honest as the circumstances allow. And what’s in our control is to always zoom out and say hey, this is the goal, this is what we’re going towards as in life so in companies there will be ups and downs and this is just part of that.

Of course, every phase again needs whether it’s fiscal prudence, whether it’s the right M&As that one is going after so all those strategies change but I think the basics remain the same. And I think what’s been highlight to us very, very starkly in the last two years is that whether for good or bad the true DNA of a company comes out in the bad times.

Rupali:

Yeah, true.

Maya:

So we’ve always introspected that how are we behaving in – you know, at the beginning of Covid let’s say, right, so I think because of some of the actions that we took of being very upfront with our team saying that we’re in this together, we will figure this out. You know, for example we took pay cuts across the company, very transparently saying founders are taking this cut, leaders are taking this cut etc, etc. We didn’t do any layoffs, we did everything to prevent that, we gave up offices. As Umang our co-founder said we fired offices, we cut down on a lot of spends.

So I think our employees have seen hopefully who the company truly is and company is what, the leaders, right, the behavior of the leaders and the decisions that leaders take. So I would say that Karma is now – you know, it comes in a good way. And I would like to say that where we are today is in a very blessed position and we don’t take it for granted, we try and not take that for granted. Because it’s built on the shoulders of many, many team members’ hard work, blood, sweat, hopefully not tears, but blood and sweat through the years.

Rupali:

It is a journey.

Maya:

Yeah. That's what we -- we kind of just go to – okay, who are we, what’s the journey we’re on, what can we control in the sense what can we do for employees or the ecosystem. And focus there, while of course being aware of what’s going on in the space.

Rupali:

So what was it like, right, then to post Covid till now how has the perspective or the strategy changed or has it?

Anuradha:

There was a time when people were looking for jobs, I think now jobs are looking for people because you really need the right set of people and it’s not just from a skill perspective but it is about who you are as a person, what are your true intentions. What do you really want to do and these are especially true in leadership roles. And in your worst adversities I mean you truly show who you are as a real person. You know, typical to what Maya and her team saw I think we had very similar experiences of founders showing resilience and all of us drawing inspiration from these resilience.

And us realizing that our strongest influencers have become our leaders and our family members. The world shrinks, you have multiple set of people that you could interact with and physically draw energies from. All of those good things that we took for granted suddenly became nonexistent and now is where I think the true test of times come to play. Remote jobs are no longer meant for just freelancers. How you think about this landscape in larger organizations, it’s very hard as it is when you have ten people working remotely, today I think the teams are distributed in so many different locations how do you scale that. What are the ways in which you can solve some of these problems, how do you make it work without bleeding on culture. I think those are important challenges for us to solve today which is what I think most people will grapple with.

Because culture is something that you feel, you walk into a place you experience it, it is not about a few values that are written on books, it is about the virtue. All the virtues that you live by the actions that -- the words that come out in the form of actions that's what culture is.

Rupali:

Smaller things.

Anuradha:

Yeah. The smaller things, you know. Just greeting somebody when you're in a corridor all of those everything is changing. How do you get people to understand that today because that is what really defines any company, what are the values that you live by, how do you make your decisions. How do you arrive at the right decisions with a balance of business and people that is only dictated by culture. If it were to be a tie and you had to make a decision I think culture always wins over everything else. You always make decisions based on how people are and what it is.

But today there are so many people who get hired in different places in different locations in different parts of the world but they’ve never felt it. They’ve read about it but for you to do something and for you to be able to action on something you have to experience it today I think it is very difficult for people to assimilate their people to an organization’s culture. I think that is what is changing a lot today.

Rupali:

And I'm going to take you guys, right, this is for the larger HR fraternity. You guys have given me a sneak peek on what it takes to not only survive but thrive in a startup ecosystem and build it. But I would love to hear an example, any anecdote, any instance, any conversation that really helped you revalidate or reaffirm the meaningful impact HR can build in a business building process.

Maya:

So HR is this weird function where I think the minute you choose to go down that path you lose your name. So HR said this, HR said that, you know, it was very odd to me in the early years now I’ve just reconciled to being called HR. I think the thing I refer to is typically especially in a family setting or you’re at a wedding or something like that and people ask where are you working, what do you do and you say that and usually the question back is but what exactly do you do. Right, and I think that encompasses the whole function.

You know, as Veeru and Umang our founders said that they look at HR as the soul of the company. Now when you hear something like that I think you instinctively know what that should mean, it’s difficult to write it down but it’s the feel, it’s what you say, it’s what you do, it’s what your team does, it’s how you partner. So I think for me both of these, that is one always struggling to explain what I do and second is the ask from the founders of being the soul of the company. So it’s a very high bar to live up to and I think that's how it should be, right, because sometimes you may be the last thing standing between either a good and a bad decision or a good and a great decision.

So there’s a lot on one’s shoulders, so I think I would just say two things, one is as an HR person in today’s times especially in startup setups you genuinely have to love doing what you do. Because you're spending unending hours with your team, you know, with your business leaders and you cannot fake it. You either love what you do or you just don’t, right, and it’s not worth it also otherwise if you don’t.

Second is I think having this ability to have a point of view. So to have a point of view you have to understand the business, you have to understand your team, you’ve to understand the vision, all of that. So and third is having the courage to say that point of view when it needs to be said if it’s being left, you know, if that point is not been brought up in the room which could add to a decision. So I think I have too many Marvel fans at home so you know, the whole the Spiderman thing, right, with great power comes great responsibility. I think it keeps one grounded on what the role should be and what the impact should be. So, yeah, I would say that.

Rupali:

Seven years, I know, any example which helped you reaffirm the impact that you could create and you're creating?

Anuradha:

At the risk of sounding cheesy --

Maya:

I thought we passed that gate long back.

Anuradha:

I draw a lot of inspiration from Harshil and Shashank. You know, you can read a lot of books, you could take inspiration from so many things that people say every day. But I think what reaffirms it is their vision and what has always really – what has always made an impact to me has been that one statement from Harshil on day 2 that I was at Razorpay was I want my people to be happy. Harshil must have been all of 23 years back then and to me that was a very deep statement to make.

Somebody at that age to be able to think about the fact that you want to build a business but to think about people and say that I want that and that is your key role here for me nothing else could have added value. You could have taken a job description or a job specs from somewhere and said you know, these are your deliverables. But then it is so deep when you say you want your people to be happy, Razorpay is built on that foundation. Harshil is and I think very hard to come close to that has been my biggest inspiration to do everything that I do as a people’s person.

Second is definitely I think nothing goes without me ever taking Bharat’s name in it. He has been the backbone to everything that I’ve done and to me while a lot of things are what because I'm very nontraditional, right, I mean I cannot put process documents even today. You know, I can tell you what are all the things that needs to be done but I can never put it as 1, 2, and 3. He is my sounding board, if I feel like there is something that I want to do and if there’s something that I'm not very courageous about – I'm generally a very fearless person that way. But if there’s something that I don’t feel very strongly about I use him as my sounding board. So it just puts everything in perspective for me.

So Harshil definitely and his line of I want my people to be happy that has stayed with me for all of the seven years that I’ve been at Razorpay and I think that reaffirmed everything about why HR and the people function should exist.

Rupali:

So you have an entrepreneur in the office, one at home, reaffirming you on a daily basis. Amazing. This is great, Anu, Maya. Thank you. I couldn’t have been more happier doing this with both of you. I was more excited about today, right, primarily because this was to show a new possibility, this was to show how HR can partner in a business building process bottoms up. This was to reaffirm that you cannot power on a business keeping talents needs aside. It is not either or, they have to walk together. And thank you so much for sharing your respective journeys with us and we wish you great luck as you power on the company to the next level. Interesting days ahead and we couldn’t have been more happier to being a partner to this process from day 1.

So thank you so much both of you.

Maya:

Thank you.

Rupali:

I know first Matrix Moments episode for you and first of many to come. So thank you and look forward to hosting you guys again.

Maya:

Thank you. Thanks so much.

Anuradha:

Thank you so much.