The Delhi Belly edition: Part 2
Hi and welcome back to part 2 of our Delhi edition Founder Moments episode. In todays episode we take stock of startup environment and the growing and burgeoning founder eco-system in Delhi NCR. we have with us today,Chirag Taneja, the Co-founder of GoKwik, Anindya Dutta, the Co-founder of Stanza Living, Amit Lakhotia, Founder of Park+, and Asish Mohapatra, Co-founder of Ofbusiness, along with Avnish Bajaj, Founder and Managing Director at Matrix Partners India. Tune - in.
Salonie:
Hi and welcome back to part 2 of our Delhi edition Founder Moments episode, this is Salonie and we have with us today,Chirag Taneja, the Co-founder of GoKwik, Anindya Dutta, the Co-founder of Stanza Living, Amit Lakhotia, Founder of Park+, and Asish Mohapatra, Co-founder of Ofbusiness, along with Avnish Bajaj, Founder and Managing Director at Matrix Partners India.
In todays episode we take stock of startup environment and the growing and burgeoning founder eco-system in Delhi NCR, tune-in to find out more.
Avnish:
In the context of this kind of an environment you just said, we just talked about taking money. You said see ball, hit ball, take money. What about M&A, I think it comes up in almost every discussion, karna chaheye, nahe karna chaheye, I know, Andy, you’re Goldman Saks, main Goldman Saks mein M&A bech ta tha, par mujhe pata tha 90% of the time chalta nahe hai. But I think you’ve had a very contra experience and view. So what are the thoughts?
Asish:
We’ve done it differently. Tou dekheye mujhe lagta hai agar aap revenue ke liye M&A lerai, tou asahe badbaad hona hai, At the end of the day if you’re trying to prove your business model by actually acquiring somebody, you won’t get anywhere. There has to be a different strategic reason for violating them, there could be many reasons. And the second is most of the M&A’s actually fail and there is a big Goldman sacks studies which make in India has doubled up saying most of the M&A’s fail because of post mind integration. So if you have to worry about integration, So at the end of the day if your M&A operating model is such, that it takes care of integration by itself, then you probably won’t fail. Like for example we buy our suppliers, if you buy your suppliers they’re anyway supplying to you, you’re probably 30 percent of his business. You’re already integrated to him, probably he runs on your own tech system at the end of the day.
Avnish:
So just abstracting that because I think it’s a very, very good point. You’re saying by that definition backward integration and forward integration is likely to succeed.
Asish:
In my opinion, yes. But if you’re buying your competitor you’re likely buying somebody because you want to buy his revenue but you have saddles of problem. He’s probably a different culture, he’s probably built in a very different way and stuff like that. So if you go forward or backward and I personally think it is easier if you take it back. Then it is forward.
Avnish
Sabko batou apne minds aur wo sab, isthat publicinformation.
Amit:
Which one?
Avnish:
Ap jo---
Asish:
Agle round ke baad lenge.
Avnish:
Par app mines bhi banougey?
Asish:
No, my view is that at the end of the day the real value lies in four places. One is the sea, one is the field, one is the mountain, and the fourth is a mine. So unless you actually own a bit of these four -- I actually said it in jest to Avnish and he really liked it.
Avnish:
One year strategy articulated.
Amit:
He’s sounding like somebody?
Anindya:
He’s sounding like the sheiks of Dubai. Right.
Asish:
Ah, yes, we have them as our investors.
Anindya:
No, but I couldn’t agree more with what Asish said. I think buying revenue is just the wrong strategy for M&A, particularly if you’re thinking that you’re getting someone cheap then something is wrong.
Avnish:
To get monkeys for peanuts.
Anindya:
Exactly. So I think completely agree on forward and backward integration. Maybe there are adjacencies which you want to explore and that is something which you want to look at, buying distribution, absolutely yes. But I don’t think you should be buying another source of revenue for the same business.
Avnish:
You know, I think one of the most insightful things that I’ve learnt in this conversation was the point you made also about buying competition who that culture has been trained to hate you. It’s probably set up to fail. Whereas as a customer or a supplier you have a symbiotic relationship so it is more likely to succeed. I never thought of it like that.
Asish:
You know, when I was in McKinsey they used to say that the only people who make money in a M&A is actually other than the investment banker is the consultant who heads the post merger intervention, everybody else loses money.
Avnish:
Interesting. Okay. let’s come toyour -- before we come to Delhi versus Bangalore which is a topic we want to cover since we’re in Delhiyou guysare also founders and angel investors and encouragingeverybody in the Delhi ecosystem to please reach out proactively. Give some advice to budding founders,shouldthey take money only fromexperienced angel investorsbecauseyou guysareexperienced founders whoare angel investors.Shouldthey get in a VC early,shouldthey not get in a VC early,shouldthey take one VC, two VC?
Asish:
One VC. Matrix.
Avnish:
Right answer. Now real answer?
Anindya:
I can say this that when we look back at our fundraising strategy the one mistake which we made and I say this to all founders which I meet these days is not having angels. And we thought we were keeping the cap table clean and I think that was a big, big mistake. Having angels is absolutely must in my head because I think they’re tremendous brand ambassador is one, two, you really it’s a great sounding word, I think people mentioned that earlier to kind of pick.
Avnish:
But, Andy, apke time pe ha nahe,So I’m in violent agreement by the way. I think the people would be doing themselves a disservice by not taking money where they can get that advice and the eco system has just deepened like crazy for the last 5 years.
Anindya:
I mean I think I remember and Tarun and Gaurav both had told us that you should bring in because we had a couple of angels who were looking at us. We said no and it was a big mistake and I would recommend every founder to do it.
Asish:
We offered him to take our money at angel price, we’re happy to be Stanza angels. I offered that to Amit which he grabbed, gleefully accepted.
Avnish:
You took two VCs, fortunately he took one VC. He decided somewhere in the middle he took two. I mean seriously for advice to the ecosystem what are the thoughts?
Amit:
I think one part is very clear that you should have an angel, I think you should pick up more from whether they can give you some time or not. Like for example for a lot of startups I tell clearly I can’t give you time, I can give you money if you want but I can’t give you time. But I think that startup should say no to me very clearly. Agar time nahe desakte, tou paise maat do. The second part is around getting more VCs in. I think it depends on the size of round you’re looking to raise. So if you’re looking to raise say anywhere more than 6-7 million obviously makes sense to get 2 VCs in.
Avnish:
Why? There are deep pocketed VCs who can do such rounds alone
Amit:
No, it is also about the stage of your company, validation, bouncing of ideas. Because this is a stage where you’re most vulnerable. You don’t know.
Avnish:
Wellsaid.
Amit:
And that is what you want to bounce off whether that will work, that will not work. And VCs like for example this is for you this is the only company. For VCs like they’re seeing 20 different bets parallely, not only in India but similar structure in other places. Now what is working, what is not working, what worked somewhere, what didn’t work somewhere. Like for example we were talking about M&A. Now I haven’t seen a single M&A in my life but you would have seen like say 50 M&As. Now it becomes easy for me because the deals will keep coming to me small startups saying Park+ hain, acquire karlo aap.
But meri fatt ti hai, mujhe samaj he nahe aata, it becomes easy for me when I can brainstorm with more people around kase dekhna chaheye, kase karn achaheye, and so and so forth. And I think what also happens is most of the VCs also go through their journey. So like for example you might be fairly busy in some of your deals at certain point of time. And at that point of time I have to take a call with whom do I brainstorm.
Avnish:
Fair enough.
Asish:
One VC plus a few angels.
Chirag:
Just to add to Amit’s point so we have, what, 25-30 angels and we’ve taken angels at all rounds. So Amit by the way told me also that, ke main time nahe depounga, I told him, time tou dena he padega, I’ve been fortunate by the way, a lot of people told me that we won’t be able to contribute etcetra, etcetra, but I can say it thumping on the table saying people have helped me and people have given me time also. So I think it also depends on the individual, what kind of ask we have. If it is in his domain I’m sure he’ll help. So it also depends on that.
Avnish:
Youhave to suck it out in terms of the time.
Chirag:
Yeah, yeah, I’ve been to his office couple of times and he was not there. So it has happened but it happens.
Avnish:
Asish, you always have the contra view, so why don’t you say?
Asish:
One VC and angels.
Avnish:
Matrix plus angels.
Asish:
A few angels.
Avnish:
I agree. So let’s talk about Delhi. Soyou know, I was sharing the statistic with you guys offline. We were looking at our geographic mix of investments since 15years and I found itvery surprising.
Asish:
You mean Matrix or VC ecosystem as a whole.
Avnish:
It’s very similar. It’s very similar. Some VCs have some skew but I would say it’s largely similar. Delhi NCR has stayed between 25-35 percent. Somewhere around 11-12 went down a little bit but I would say call it 30 percent steady. Bangalore now again we were maybe a little bit less tech earlier but Bangalore has gone from like early 20s to 40-45 and now steady. Mumbai has gone down from 25-30 to now steady at about 15-20 because of fintech, media. But net net Delhi has actually been the most steady VC ecosystem in the country but I think under appreciated or under recognized. So how do we change it?
Amit:
Markets recognize it.
Chirag:
Why do you say under recognized?
Amit:
Zomato, whether it is now Paytm, Mobikwik, Exigo, Makemytrip, Naukri, is there something else in Bangalore like this.
Asish:
Delhi has a massive natural advantage over Bangalore when it comes to creating any kind of I would say institutions.
Avnish:
Why everybody keeps asking, won’t you ask when maybe we didn’t ask but people would be asking when are you opening a Bangalore office?
Asish:
Main batata hu aapko, Answer is in geography and history. So Delhi if you look at it the nearest metro to Delhi is probably Bombay or Calcutta which is 1500 kilometers away. The closest cities to Delhi are Jaipur, Chandigarh, Lucknow, Ludhiana, 250 kilometers away with the exception of Lucknow which is 550-600 kilometers but all four cities are essentially tier 2.
Take Bangalore for example, Bangalore to Chennai under 500, Bangalore to Hyderabad under 500, Bangalore to Mumbai under 1000. So Bangalore actually is surrounded by at least three metros whereas Delhi the nearest metro is 1500 kilometers away. So Delhi fundamentally drains a lot more of trade and consumption. So hence you will see a lot more transaction led businesses coming up in Delhi, you will see a lot more commerce led businesses coming up in Delhi.
History kya hai ismein, Delhika sabse paas wala metro, is actually in Pakistan. Lahore is under 500 kilometers, aap Faisalabad dekheye, Faisalabad is under 500 kilometers. You see Multan, under 500 kilometers. So actually the cities that were nearer to Delhi because of geography are on the other side of the border which we don’t trade with. Tou India mein kya hota hai ki Delhi, ke aas paas sara teir 4 locations hai.
Avnish:
I thought it was the aggression culturethat’s --
Asish:
Wo tou hai he sir, wo too hai he, But the fact that whole of UP actually dates to Delhi.
Avnish:
So SaaS aur data products nahe banne wale yahaan pe, ye tou bana rai hai data science aur ---
Asish:
Wo bhi Kabul karenge, it’s a commerce like this. They’re also a commerce like this.
Amit:
No, but even if you look at the whole culture ten years before like companies used to distribute the stuff in Delhi and from air it would go to other places. Like for example my father has a small shop in Bhagrath place which used to be like before GST, with GST things stabilized. But even if you had to send something to Kanpur the companies will stock in Delhi and daily the Kanpur trader will come and whether Kanpur, whether Lucknow, whether Jaipur Delhi is the hub.
Obviously in last 4-5 years with GST coming in and with more smoother transportation logistics and everything --
Asish:
And no other metro in India actually has that. Even Mumbai still has Pune, Ahmedabad and Indore aside them.
Avnish:
Though it’s a very interesting point but do you -- I know that used to be a question whether you can scale large tech teams in Delhi, has that question been answered, is it no longer a worry?
Asish:
Data guys should go first.
Chirag:
I would say it’s an advantage here because there are not many tech companies here. So whatever talent --
Asish:
Sir, asa maat bolo.
Amit:
Abhi bola na, Stanza hai ek tech company.
Chirag:
At least for our size we have not faced a challenge yet. So we’ve been able to attract good talent and possibly I think we’ve been remote so location doesn’t matter.
Amit:
Actually, Bangalore se zyada challenge I ga local mein, Like for example some people who have gone to now say Kota, Jodhpur, Badmer, pohioch bhi gai hometown wapis, now they’re having their Delhi salary and they’re sitting at Badmer which is like at one fourth of the Delhi cost. And, ab ounko wapis aap kase louge, because now they have access to like a job in Bangalore. So I don’t think Bangalore is a competition, the competition would be more around that guy sitting there can work anywhere, that is the competition.
Avnish:
But actually on our note earlier about remote working and I know Kunal Shah had put this tweet out I’m in violent agreement, I think that guy should not be sitting in Badmer, he’s doing himself a disservice. It may look good for the next 12 months but long term, baad mein karna hai, If you’re in your 40s and you’re doing that. But this is the time to learn.
Amit:
No, no, I understand but it is --
Avnish:
No, no, I know whatyou’re saying.
Amit:
People are switching jobs every 6-9 months with an assumption okay, a 20 lakh guy becomes like a 60 lakh guy in 18 months, maybe less than that. But like when the bust happens would he be able to justify that solution. Finally there is a skillset and Indian market can pay only salaries for Indian market. Unless you’re building a global business how would you keep affording those kind of people, you will not.
Anindya:
Just one thing to add to the Delhi versus Bangalore question. Asish made the point around from a wholesale commerce lens. From a consumer business lens this is slightly contrarian views. So 70 percent of our business happens in Bangalore, Chennai, Hyderabad and we’re based in Delhi. Which by the way means that all my competition is based in Bangalore so we’re an exception based in Delhi at this point of time. I feel because we’re not based in Bangalore we’re much sharper in terms of how we think about GTM than anybody today whose based in Bangalore. For them, Bangalore mein itna bada market hai, for them its like yahe pae tou hai sabkuch. so there’s no GTM thinking at all.
I think when you’re sitting in Delhi and trying to plan a strategy for a launch in Cochin or Chennai or whatever you just think a lot more because finally you’re like sitting in Delhi and trying to figure out a solution for Cochin. You’re just sharper in your thinking around that and I just think that puts us in advantage versus somebody who’s sitting at Bangalore has got to a particular skill and saying, mere ko Delhi jana hai. He’s never thought about GTM at all. Because wo Bangalore mein he itna logon ko kara ta hai to begin with and suddenly that business becomes very, very Bangalore heavy.
Amit:
We could also become like a easy GTM to a tougher GTM market transition.
Avnish:
Yeah.
Amit:
Like if you look at lot of these Bounce, like all these companies have found it hard to come to Delhi. Like Bangalore obviously there is scale they will claim like some of the people will claim. Even companies like Danzo etcetra like significant part of their business comes from Southern India and Northern India is slightly different. So if you crack Northern India I think you can go to Southern India, I don’t think so because that’s relatively more easy to adopt.
Asish:
Historically North Indians have ruled South Indians not the vice versa.
Avnish:
I was just going to say, abhi Asish bolega dekho, jab temperers bhi aate tha, upar se aate tha. Neche se upar kabhi nahe jata tha but wahaan pe ocean bhi hai. But I think it’s interesting. I think from my vantage point there used to be a question that used to get asked that I believe will not get asked again which used to be to the Delhi founders [0:16:05] [Hindi spoken]. And some of it is Covid because I think everybody has become comfortable. I used to get, entrepreneurs used to ask me, main office khol ra hu, I used to say no. Now it’s like you don’t even think about that.
But it’s also, I can see the confidence, the security has been ki hum yahhaan maneyenge,and it’s almost like somebody from Delhi doesn’t want to go to Bangalore and Bangalore doesn’t want to come to Delhi and it’s great. It’s great for the country if you ask me.
Anindya:
Having said that, Avnish I would say that tech talent Bangalore still is heads and shoulders over Delhi.
Avnish:
No, no, it is. For sure. But the question then is istech ultimately whether whatever be our opinions is tech the hi tech going to turn out to be the way Chirag is saying which is you’ll be remote, people will be anywhere. I know who was telling me the other day that they have one engineer, maybe it was you, who was saying that they have one person in Astonia and one person in Russia.
Chirag:
We’re just exploring that option.
Avnish:
Someone was telling me. So who knows. Okay, on to some fun stuff. And I don’t know how many real answers we’ll get but we’ll try. So rapid fire round as usual. So which is the unicorn most likely to go bust?
Anindya:
Just too controversial a question, they can answer.
Avnish:
Anybody is going to hazard a guess?
Asish:
Anybody who is burning a lot and actually became a unicorn too early. If these two things are true I would say.
Avnish:
And I think we’re all optimistic people so I agree with you, let’s not name people but I think that’s the right way to say. That you became a unicorn by raising a lot of capital.
Asish:
And you’re still burning a lot.
Avnish:
Then that’s probably the answer. Okay, that was easy. Next decacorn?
Amit:
Sitting in front of --
Asish:
No, no, no way. There may be others on the way.
Anindya:
I think my answer to that would be anybody who tiger likes.
Avnish:
I think you can’t become a decacorn on the back of just capital. I think you have to have a real business. My view is it’s going to be much more long till, I also believe this one hopefully the closest but you know, the other good thing in that, Andy, is beyond a point now the feet are going to be held to the fire of the public markets. And that is the best thing that could have happened. Congrats to Dipinder what he’s created, valuations may go up and down but beyond a point only real businesses will be there. Decacorn bane ke agar aap public nahe jarai ho, tou kya faida, but Asish we’re rooting for you.
Asish:
Thank you.
Avnish:
India digital market cap in 2030?
Avnish:
Kaunsi apni?
Asish:
2x of what it is today. 25 percent year on year.
Avnish:
No we are in --
Asish:
India, India is 2.4.
Amit:
So I think probably India will become like a 6-7 and typically I think 1-1.5 totally.
Asish:
I’ll say 10x in ten years. 26 percent each.
Avnish:
Tou abhi kitne hai, humne bhi kuch complicated analysis kiya tha, tou anaswer same aaya tha, jo aap logon ne jaldi se dedeya, but 1-1.5 trillion just for people’s context China is about -- China is highly concentrated in two companies. But and I don’t think -- I think India will be more long term. But with that it was about 2.5-3 trillion and therefore if you do the GDP multiplier we should be 1-2 trillion. I actually believe Asish what you were saying earlier, I think we’ll be surprised on the upside. I think ye jo hu ahai na, Covid, import substitution, some policy moves by the government on manufacturing I think this will all come together and maybe the distinction between a digital business and a non digital business which I was asking you are you a tech business I think nobody will ask that question.
Asish:
I was reading in some journal that we’re fastest ten year growth that a country has ever had was 10x in ten years. Which is almost triple of your current growth rate and four countries have gone through it.
Avnish:
10x at the GDP level.
Asish:
10x, you know, you take a -- you know, it’s index or whatever and it was typically around manufacturing. So I think if we can get there if we can be the fifth country it’ll be a big deal.
Amit:
Yousaid 2.5 trillion to 25 trillion.
Asish:
No, that is GDP. Now manufacturing, that journal was specifically about manufacturing.
Amit:
No, I’m just saying like for a country of our size I think there are only two job creation themes, one is manufacturing and second is tourism.
Asish:
Services.
Amit:
Tourism, not even services. Tourism.
Avnish:
No, IT, ITES, BPO.
Amit:
You require a certain level of skillset so they will absorb only till a certain skill set. Baki ka skillset absorb he nahe hoga naa.
Asish:
But tourism is going down and then will go back up.
Amit:
No, but tourism is one of those things which drives a lot of things. Like for example if you go and spend time in Jaipur, I’m just giving an example, two days. You’ll be staying in a hotel, you’ll be eating in a restaurant, you’ll be going to a shop.
Avnish:
Multiplier.
Amit:
So like a guy doesn’t require any education but he can make 500-1000 rupees per day and if he is employed say 30 days a month because tourists start continuously coming he is suddenly sitting on 30-40 thousand rupees a month which is very good. And so tourism is one thing which is going to help across the whole strata, you don’t need very, very skilled people for that. Obviously some people will be skilled like but if a hotel functions, if a restaurant functions, if a shop functions like the people who are working there, people who are delivering services to these guys everything will go up. And manufacturing obviously is actually rather than more than manufacturing tourism is something which is going to deliver jobs.
Because even in manufacturing we have started talking about rewards and everything. I went to a factory called Asia One in China which is the JDE’s warehouse. That was like 2016 or ’17. And there used to be like 70,000 guys picking, sorting, that’s like that used to deliver like a million orders a day. That time India whole in internet was delivering a million, that was only one warehouse for one company. And they said these 70,000 people will get replaced to -- will become 350 people in next three years because of reports. So if manufacturing jobs are again taken by robot how do you create jobs?
Avnish:
Yeah, interesting.
Amit:
So I think that part is come to be a bit tricky.
Avnish:
Okay, rapid fire most under -- the sector that you’re most excited by and a sector that you think is the most over hyped if you look out five years, something that will create a lot of value and something that you think is overripe and may destroy well.
Asish:
Over hyped is edtech.
Avnish:
But isn’t it asCovid asthey come. Like don’tyou need --
Asish:
I think my sense is that education is the most contacts port and it’ll come back to its neutral equilibrium, right now its unstable, so it’s going to come back.
Avnish:
Interesting.
Anindya:
I think, over there I completely agree, and I spent a lot of time with university, admins, chancellor, etcetra. They’re struggling and there is no focus on learning outcomes and I think once people realize that I think a lot of what you’re seeing will go away.
Amit:
It is the same like if I look at my kid, my daughter is in 3rd standard. I don’t think she has learnt anything in the last 18 months. Two hours of sitting in front of laptop and half the time she will open YouTube and Harry Potter at the same time.
Asish:
That speaks volume of what you taught her.
Avnish:
Actually even before the nationalization of Edtech happened in China companies were valued highly butthey were struggling with the churn. LTV to CAC was a big challenge. Whatabout promising exciting sectors.
Chirag:
For me I think that’s Kotak, so companies like Postman. So they only --
Avnish:
Wo Delhi se ayengi?
Chirag:
As long as we’ll be able to -- people will be able to work for these companies headquartered in Delhi so we will work globally. So these companies will be global. So API infrastructure companies like Helio all of these are under appreciated companies. I think when they achieve a certain scale then only people realize that what kind of backbone infrastructure they built out which you can’t live without. That’s one sector I think probably under appreciated in our country.
Amit:
I think personal mobility is in, shared mobility is out and even the guys who have built big shared mobility companies in India have started looking at building personal mobility stuff.
Avnish:
Whyareyou looking at me?
Anindya:
And I would say Kotak with an IOT layer to it is something that I don’t thinkpeople have, I think India has not done anything on that front. People who are willing to spend time on building the data science layer on an IOT ecosystem which will truly kind of become omnipresent I think that’s going to be crucial.
Avnish:
And my two cents there is in health. I would also say in health I think there is so much that can be done. Haven’t figured out exactly what will happen but Asish?
Asish:
Sector that we’re in. B2B.
Avnish:
B2B tou explore karhe raha tha.
Asish:
Under appreciated, yeah. I think intermediary economies in India have largely been fragmented whereas if you look at developed countries you always have consolidation because of a big macro economic trend and we’re seeing that in India, so we’re at the beginning of it.
Avnish:
Super, guys, really, really appreciate all the time and hopefully --
Anindya:
Last question.
Avnish:
Well. It’s the last question is --
Asish:
Don’t ask me.
Avnish:
The last question is which is the best VC outside of Matrix but that’s not a real question. But parting thoughts and advice to somebody starting out?
Asish:
Be yourself, don’t change. You will always land in a sweet spot.
Avnish:
Another way to say it is themarket tailwind,I meanthis is the next decade isprobably the best years and we’re going tohave it,right. So don’t eventhink twice and jump in, even ifyou --youwon’t fail,you’ll iterate.
Asish:
Yeah.
Anindya:
I think it’s a great time to be an entrepreneur. It’s a great time to believe in what you’re building. I think we tend to get spread charted into A, B, C types by people outside but as an entrepreneur I should know what you’re building, just focus and go for it. I think that’s what that matters.
Amit:
I think not even being an entrepreneur, even if you work for directly for an entrepreneur I think it’s a great time because earlier like for example you have to have a certain pedigree, age, experience to work directly with an entrepreneur. Today if you’re smart enough there are enough entrepreneurs who would just straight away like to work with you. For example there are positions getting created like chief of staff, etcetra, etcetra where people with two, three, four years of experience are working directly and that’s amazing way to learn.
And another thing is like you should maximize your probability of success and don’t directly jump in. You will not even realize that where you were 3, 4, 5 years got sucked in, time is valuable and picking right segment is even more important.
Avnish:
So let me just addsomething tothat.You know, wehavethis concept internally of aexperienced founder profile and all ofyou in various ways is fitted. But it wouldhave fitted, all ofyouare fitted like Isaid. And thedifference you know, when I came back and started Baazi was just okay, copy paste, model whatever. And the what we observe is this point of being very deliberate thinking through both the market, the profit pool in the market , the GTM, somewhere in the discussion the GTM had come out. And then by the way lot of thought around the organization and the organization building.
And then when you watch this set of founders versus the go fearless change the world both of which have a role frankly without one the other cannot survive. What do you find with this is that then when it starts fitting it starts compounding very fast because things have been kind of -- it’s a little bit opposite of run fast and break thick. It is actually maybe I don’t know how to put it but go a little bit more deliberately and so when you don’t need to break things and yet I think that’s your point that you will.
And I’ll just add to that and then turn it over to you Asish for closing thoughts. Is this the time, I think even in the next decade if you’re in digital India or if want to digital India and if you’re not doing it now you’re going to miss out. Now maybe you get experience for 1, 2, 3 years but this is the time and --
Asish:
Now I’ll put it in summary, I’d read it somewhere and it just struck with me. It said paste the new agent first as a consumer, second as a lender. Third as an investor, fourth as an employee, and if you’re lucky fifth is an entrepreneur.
Avnish:
Super.
Asish:
Based on these levels you will be able to make it.
Avnish:
Great. Great note to end it on. Thank you guys, really appreciate it and onwards.
Anindya:
Thank you.
Salonie:
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